Hey everyone! I think this question is like beating a dead horse, but our community is still confused and people make what appear to be great points on both sides so I was hoping maybe there was an official response somewhere.
A unit has X models, and the unit has unstoppable. One model is not engaged, I choose him to be the point of movement and charge someone. The other models pick up and come with me, but are no longer engaging who they were engaged with.
Do these models get an attack? I assume since they couldn’t charge they definitely won’t get the charge bonus for sure, but can they make a normal attack?
There’s a passage that says if a model was engaged prior to being placed as a result of its unit charging, it must forfeit its combat action unless its engaging the same models it was before movement. That seems clear but does adding unstoppable to the unit change that at all? The model is placed out of one or more enemy models’ melee ranges during its normal movement, however last piece would be that engaged models cannot use their normal movement to charge/run/slam.
With those pieces, I feel you can make cases for both, I’ve heard more people say they don’t get to attack due to having to forfeit and that’s how I’ve treated it just in case, but wanted to clarify if someone has a source of a clarification, thanks!
Here’s the important bit about Charging and being engaged:
Here’s what Unstoppable does:
Here’s the part from Unit Charges that you reference:
Note that both Unstoppable and the Unit Charge section directly reference Disengaging. The quoted Unit Charges section above tells us – to summarize – that models in the unit who were engage prior to being placed Disengage as part of being placed during a Unit Charge.
And, as you can see, this language was essentially copy/pasted straight from Disengaging:
So, putting it all together:
If one model in the unit is not engaged, that model can be chosen to charge. (Source: Unit Charges.)
If the unit does not have Unstoppable, any models that Disengage must forfeit their Combat Actions. If the unit has Unstoppable, models can Disengage without forfeiting their Combat Actions.
The only special interaction with Charges is the opening quote showing that engaged models cannot charge. Otherwise, charging is treated identically to non-charging from this perspective.
I think this rule is pretty widely played like Michael explained.
Just on small a bit silly detail what happens if your Unstoppable model A was engaging an enemy model X and model B enemy model Y. When your unengaged model C is chosen to charge the same unit you must place model A into melee with Y (and not X) and model B into melee with X if you want to get charge attacks from those models.
Agree, I have no dog in this fight either way but an official answer can put it to bed. Also unrelated, but I don’t know if there already is a place where all rulings have been lumped together, but might try and track them down as like a FAQ of some kind for TO/Players to reference, otherwise you search by context and hope to find it.
Pardon for bringing this back, but did you find the older thread?
I think Micheal has collected all the info, and it is clear that unengaged model can charge, and the engaged models with Unstoppable can be placed next to the charging models, and do not lose their Combat Action.
What is not 100% clear to me is whether the models placed that were previously engaged, get normal or charge attacks. As there is a rule saying engaged models cannot charge, it could be interpreted that they get normal attacks, but I am not 100% sure as the model that made the charge movement is making a charge, and the models placed are placed due to the charge movement.
And, following up on Chuck’s answer: if you are placed in the melee range of a model that was already engaging you before you were placed as a result of the charge movement, then you do not get the charge bonus.
That is because the “In such a case, the engaged model’s first melee is not considered to be a charge attack” is talking about the preceding sentence, which is:
Sorry, but this is really a stupid rule if these models can have charge attacks. It’s in the opposite side of the genral rule. I can understand that they will keep their attacks but not to gain charge attacks.
