Hey everyone! I think this question is like beating a dead horse, but our community is still confused and people make what appear to be great points on both sides so I was hoping maybe there was an official response somewhere.
A unit has X models, and the unit has unstoppable. One model is not engaged, I choose him to be the point of movement and charge someone. The other models pick up and come with me, but are no longer engaging who they were engaged with.
Do these models get an attack? I assume since they couldn’t charge they definitely won’t get the charge bonus for sure, but can they make a normal attack?
There’s a passage that says if a model was engaged prior to being placed as a result of its unit charging, it must forfeit its combat action unless its engaging the same models it was before movement. That seems clear but does adding unstoppable to the unit change that at all? The model is placed out of one or more enemy models’ melee ranges during its normal movement, however last piece would be that engaged models cannot use their normal movement to charge/run/slam.
With those pieces, I feel you can make cases for both, I’ve heard more people say they don’t get to attack due to having to forfeit and that’s how I’ve treated it just in case, but wanted to clarify if someone has a source of a clarification, thanks!
@SaltTitan Could this be moved to the “warmachine” section?
oh shoot didn’t know that was something I could choose, I was able to edit.
Here’s the important bit about Charging and being engaged:
Here’s what Unstoppable does:
Here’s the part from Unit Charges that you reference:
Note that both Unstoppable and the Unit Charge section directly reference Disengaging. The quoted Unit Charges section above tells us – to summarize – that models in the unit who were engage prior to being placed Disengage as part of being placed during a Unit Charge.
And, as you can see, this language was essentially copy/pasted straight from Disengaging:
So, putting it all together:
If one model in the unit is not engaged, that model can be chosen to charge. (Source: Unit Charges.)
If the unit does not have Unstoppable, any models that Disengage must forfeit their Combat Actions. If the unit has Unstoppable, models can Disengage without forfeiting their Combat Actions.
The only special interaction with Charges is the opening quote showing that engaged models cannot charge. Otherwise, charging is treated identically to non-charging from this perspective.
(And, to make it clear: charging – the movement bit – is distinct from “making a charge attack”, as per this thread:
Immortals with ExtollerAdvocate charging Polarity Field model)
@elswickchuck I apologize for bugging you, but could we get this checked?
I think this rule is pretty widely played like Michael explained.
Just on small a bit silly detail what happens if your Unstoppable model A was engaging an enemy model X and model B enemy model Y. When your unengaged model C is chosen to charge the same unit you must place model A into melee with Y (and not X) and model B into melee with X if you want to get charge attacks from those models.
Idk it just feels odd units could bypass what seems like the intent for everything else that isn’t a unit to not be able to charge.
It would be nice to have a solidified answer from an official source especially when I have to make a judge call at an event I am running.
Agree, I have no dog in this fight either way but an official answer can put it to bed. Also unrelated, but I don’t know if there already is a place where all rulings have been lumped together, but might try and track them down as like a FAQ of some kind for TO/Players to reference, otherwise you search by context and hope to find it.
I thiught this was answered before so ill look for relevant threads
But michael has quoted the appropriate rules and has pointed out the interactions
Also never feel bad for asking me to look into something lol