A quick question with the Harbinger of Menoth’s Feat. Her Feat states “Advancing enemy models that end their movement within 10” of the Harbinger and closer to her than they began…"
So, how exactly does this work with units now? Only one model actually Advances and the rest of the unit is placed. So, only one model from the unit is affected by her Feat, correct?
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Seema the same as spike traps. Only the model that does the moving is hit.
(Not counting placed models ending on the trap)
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Spike traps don’t have the same trigger (if a model enters or ends its activation in the area extending 1" around the spike trap).
Harbinger’s feat and the Labyrinth arcana both trigger on “Advancing models ending their movement” within a certain area.
The question at hand isn’t whether placed troopers enter an area when placed (they do) but whether placed troopers are considered to have advanced as part of their Normal Movement.
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I cannot find it in the rules currently, but my gut feeling is that when a trooper is placed it is considered to have advanced as part of its activation.
When a unit moves placed models cannot aim right? Would they have considered to have advanced for their activation since they cannot aim?
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The unit as a whole chooses to either Aim, Advance, Charge, etc. But, when moving only one model actually moves, the others are placed. So, rules as written I imagine that they don’t count as having Advanced.
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Clarification specifically stating on whether placed troopers being counted as having advanced or not advanced would be nice.
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There’s a menu of options that models choose from during their Normal Movement. I can’t copy/paste right now.
“Aim” is a different choice than “Full Advance” so models that choose to aim clearly do not advance. Likewise, models that choose to charge do not aim, and so forth.
Hopefully that answers your question? I wasn’t sure what it was.
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I wasn’t really asking a question and more so stating that trooper models who are placed cannot aim. You cannot aim if you advance.
I guess I couldn’t really convey the message I wanted. So in general its probably just confusing what I meant.
I believe the question is “do all models in a unit that makes a Full Advance count as advancing?” In most cases, only one model advances and the rest are placed (which is not usually advancing), but since the whole unit chooses the same “Full Advance” option, did the placed models in fact count as having advanced too, in addition to being placed?
This matters in cases that trigger when a model advances.
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I may be a little slow at understanding everything said. Is the answer yes or no on placed models count as Advancing for the terms of the feat? The same wording is for Old Witch’s feat ‘Field of Talons’.
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The answer right now is – with a bit of necessary paraphrasing and commentary – “the answer is unclear because it looks like some old rules language made it in, and we’re waiting on confirmation one way or the other.”
Speaking speculatively: it’s probably just something that slipped through the development/proofreading process. I strongly suspect this will be changed to say “advanced or are placed”, simply because every other example that was converted MK III to MK IV got that change. 
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At the moment, only one model actually makes an Advance, so only one would be effected.
Is there any chance we could get an official ruling on whether models in units count as having advanced or not advanced when they are placed?
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It is explicit in the rulebook that troopers are placed and that being placed is not moving or advancing.
The confusion comes because the unit has to choose to advance (the recent update broke my app, so I can’t post the rules text), and so that interpretation is effectively stating that advancing models aren’t advancing.
The actual act of being Placed might not count as advancing, but that doesn’t mean the model isn’t still advancing, and given that the rules are written as a combination of Mk3 and Mk4 stuff, it’s very possible something was missed. Hence the desire for a definite clarification from an Infernal (even before going into the discussion whether some models are just lacking an updated wording for their special rules).
It seems like it should be a very straight-forward yes/no answer from an Infernal (and then maybe change the wording on unit movement in the rulebook to clarify that as well), but for some reason we’re waiting months for an answer, which suggests there might be more discussion happening behind the scenes.
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Harbinger’s feat does not trigger on a “unit advancing” it triggers on models advancing. As far as I know, there are no rules in the game that are triggered by a unit having advanced.
Nothing wrong with the language being cleaned up to avoid confusion, but the rules arent on any conflict here.
Rules as written, yes. But, in almost every other rules interaction it was changed to “Advances or is placed into…” while the Harbinger and Old Witch didn’t receive that change. It is unsure if that was deliberate or not.
We are still waiting on Internal or Dev chiming in.
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Exactly. The question is “are these feats worded correctly” not “do placed models count as having advanced”. One is very much an open question, the other is explicitly addressed in the rulebook.
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I was at WFW when they ruled that extra large based models do not benefit from concealment, cover, and elevation because RaW was not clear.
So I am a little hesitant to just assume the models themselves need clean up and not the actual rules. Some clarification here would go a long way in future rulings (like a unit with bulldoze).
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Fair enough. If we aren’t going off the text of the rulebook there isnt any more to be said.
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