Looking for clarification on the following situation:
“A knocked down model can stand up at the start of its next activation…To stand up, a knocked down model forfeits either its Normal Movement or its Combat Action.”
“…a trooper model that forfeits its Normal Movement as the result of some effect can still be placed normally during its unit’s Normal Movement”
I see a couple scenarios from this involving troopers that are knocked down:
a) One knocked down trooper forfeits its movement to stand up; it can still be placed as part of unit movement, and even use its combat action in that activation.
b) Because forfeiting normal movement has to be chosen for the unit, if any trooper wants to forfeit movement to stand up, all troopers must forfeit movement, knocked down or not.
The wrinkle with (b) is that forfeiting to stand up is done at the beginning of activation, which may differentiate it from an effect such as Stranglehold.
Could someone say which is the correct scenario and, if possible, why?
The models that were placed but had forfeit their movement have to forfeit their combat action per this section “models suffering an effect that did not allow them to advance are placed normally but must forfeit their combat action…” Second paragraph after the unit movement header. This means they would get placed but not be able to make attacks
Except the line is “Models suffering an effect that DOES not allow them to advance …”
The section on forfeiting normal movement states “A model that forfeits its Normal Movement can still advance as the result of a special rule, such as overtake, side step, reposition, or sprint”
Therefore troopers who sacrificed movement are not currently suffering an effect that does not allow them to advance. They simply forfeited the opportunity to so with their normal movement but as you already quoted above, this does not prevent their placement or impact their combat action.
An example of an effect that DOES prevent them from using their combat action in this scenario is shadowbind “A model suffering Shadow Bind suffers -3 DEF and cannot advance for one round”
The Unit Movement rules also state that “Unit movement only applies to Normal Movement and does not apply when models move for any other reason, such as when moving as a result of the Reposition special rule.” I am skeptical that “suffering an effect that does not allow them to advance” was intended to apply only to Shadow Bind-type effects.
Of course, I would welcome official clarification.
A model that cannot Advance is one that can’t under any condition. While Knocked Down, Stationary, Shadow Bind, etc.
Forfeiting your movement is how you spent it. But you still could Advance by another rule.
Oh sure, I agree there. But, there were tons of problems before doing this as well. A Knocked Down model would be destroyed if its unit moved away from it and it couldn’t be placed.
Interesting… Does that mean that you could aim with all but one model in a unit then advance with the remaining model and get the aiming bonus on all the other models in the unit after they’re placed?
I remember hearing that this topic came up in discussion at Warfare Weekend and the intention is that if a model sacrifices its Movement and is then placed with its unit it cannot make an attack.
Did i misunderstand the discussion or is this still being looked at?
It doesnt though, troopers who sacrifice movement are under no effects that prevent advancing. Therefore the highlighted phrase doesnt apply to them. The example directly below that paragraph makes clear that it doesnt apply:
I appreciate thoroughness, but I’m going to say that I don’t feel like attempting to dissect the particular details of this particular nitpick.
In context, it’s clear to me that the two sentences in that paragraph mean “If you forfeit your Normal Movement, you obviously can’t choose the Full advance option and therefore ‘cannot [full] advance’, but you can still be placed, because that was the nitpick that popped up last year and the highlighted sentence was added to clarify that in 2024. Some very specific special rules such as Reposition let you advance outside of Normal Movement, and we’re not putting any restrictions on that. All those listed effects happen after Normal Movement and when you’d be placed anyway, so they wouldn’t interact here with the ‘cannot be placed’ bit at all.”
I’m gonna put the brakes on the customary back-and-forth and just suggest an Infernal get involved.
I was expecting some sort of clear language like “if a model is suffering an effect that prevents it from advancing or sacrificed its normal movement and is placed as part of unit movement it must sacrifice its combat action”
Thankfully I havent run into anyone who thinks its an intended interaction so its mostly academic.
