Nerf Orgoth! Now where is my Patch?

I need a patch that I can add to my bag that just says “Nerf Orgoth!”

Before any of you freak about about it is too soon etc. I already know. However as a Khador player still waiting for all the stuff we really need I really hate Orgoth right now.

Why you ask:

  1. I have really good feats
  2. I can reroll anything with my main caster
  3. I have jack head options that ignore cover
  4. That stupid wind wall range reduction horribleness
  5. Jacks are so cheap and infantry options are really good right out of the core box

I feel Orgoth is a really solid army for entry into this game. This core box should have a Newbies start here advertisement on it :slight_smile:

Go ahead and let the hate commence, but the fact stands I would pay for a patch I can add to my mini bag right now. I would like a really cool Khador symbol as well truth be told.

Which infantry options are you running into, and what are they accomplishing vs Khador?

As an Orgoth player, I look at most of the infantry, and wonder what it’s meant to be used for. Some of the infantry have obvious jobs. Like the Ulkor Axers have an obvious synergy with Horrusk. But many of the infantry choices I look at and wonder where I would find a use for them.

P.S. You could totes make a one-off patch from a print on demand patch company. Cost? About 10$, looks like from a quick google. As an Orgoth player if you showed up to a game with it, I’d think it was funny.

If a certain PP graphic designer could get me permission and the file to make a one off “Nerf Orgoth / Buff Khador” style Patch I would do this in a hearbeat.

Assault Reavers are really good. The main issue with Orgoth is that is has so much synergy, and a lot of options. Miniature games are about difficult situations. Orgoth has fewer than you would expect. You opponents want to sit back and shoot, Wind Wall and they out threat most armies. You really need to kill something you have re-rolls. You want to go on the offensive they have really good feats to enable that. You have armor we can reduce that by 3 pretty reliably. You really need a list like Everblight to really actually threaten them into some hard decisions. Not that they are unbeatable, they just really feel like they don’t have to play from behind, and they have a lot of advantageous matchups right now. I do suspect this will change over time though.

To me it is unbalanced to put such a powerful spell as Windwall to spell rack. That’s ok for some individual caster but not as an option to anyone.

Otherwise Orgoth are pretty ok.

Win-storm is a great spell, but it doesn’t actually protect orgoth from shooting completely.

If you’re using RNG10 guns windstorm is fantastic, but when i run Athena mag-bolter spam into orgoth it reduces range from 14" to 11" (total threat 17" still). Last game i played that match up orgoth lost 2 and a half tyrants on feat turn to mag bolters and then couldn’t assassinate athena into GG.

I actually think tyrants are usually fairly expensive, especially the deluxe builds like shield/flail. The drag ones tend to be cheapest. But overall i’ve seen them struggle to trade effectively with hard hitting infantry like khador pikes or stormguard

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I was expecting a serious thing but if we’re suggesting patches that can be put onto clothes? I’d put, “Nerf them, my army is balanced” or “Nerf them, my army needs buffs.”

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Into which target? What am I missing? I look at them and I see bad range and low accuracy. Their ideal target seems to be lights and casters. I don’t face many opponents that would give me the caster shot, and plenty of opponents don’t even bring lights. And it only takes one shield-guard to spoil a big combined ranged attack.

What targets have you found them to be powerful into?

I mean, threatening a base threat of 17.57" on casters, lights(, and solos) on a 6pt unit with prey and skewer seems pretty good to me? Am I missing something here?

Don’t mind me, I’m sitting here in the corner taking notes on how I can win with my Orgoth :rofl:

In all seriousness, I am having trouble getting some things in the core box to click. Strike Reavers and Ulkor Barragers don’t really have synergies with anything else, and I struggle to have them trade well in games.

I suppose it’s also dependent on play group as well. In my meta, there’s a player who’s played Cygnar and nothing else for at least a decade. He does good work with the Storm Legion box, but no one has been able to crack his first army lists since mk4 dropped.

I mean, fair enough on the range-including-movement. But if that were good by itself then Winter Guard’s cool guns would be cooler. And speaking of Khador folks venting their gripes, the consensus seems to be that Winter Guard are bad. Medium based infantry gets a little more move thanks to their base size. But the bad RAT and the uncertainty of punching armor to get that skewer to trigger is a problem.

I played plenty of Ogrun Boarding Crew in Mk3, which had a similar stat line and low cost. And they did a ton more work if they got their drag to trigger, once they got you in melee. How often did it work, in practice? Once. Literally one game, and I still remember it, did I get to actually live the dream of making a high-consequence drag with them.

I look at Assault Reavers, and I see a squad that looks a lot like boarding crew, except that if they actually succeed in dragging someone, now they’ve dragged them to safety instead of dragging them into a high pow melee attack. Reavers, inexplicably, only do Pow10 in melee. If you’re living the dream, then you’ve stacked some debuffs, and it’s your prey target. In the best of all worlds, where they still have their flag bearer, and you managed to position things just-so, so you drag them into a witch’s Dark Shroud, that one hit hits as harder than the Ogrun Boarding Party used to. (Pow 12 for the flag bearer, -1 arm for flag aura -2 arm for dark shroud, +2 for prey).

But the number of things that have to line up for that to happen is deeply unlikely.
The initial skewer attack has to hit.
The initial skewer attack has to damage.
Your opponent can’t have ran the Prey target to the other side.
Your opponent can’t have a shield guard positioned near the skewer target.
Your opponent can’t tuck the target behind a tough model or terrain piece to stop the drag.
You have to position the flag bearer next to the one reaver who lands the un-shield-guarded hit.
You have to have positioned a witch dark shroud just so, without getting in the way of the assault reaver movement.

Now if your opponent let you do all 7 things* on that list, now you get a follow-up attack that actually gets felt on a light or a caster. Not enough to kill them; hope you have some other way to bring it home. But enough to make a strong contribution.

Maybe I should be giving them more credit for their implied range (thanks to squad movement rules and medium bases). Maybe I should be giving them more credit for Prey. But my experience has been that there’s so much counter-play for Prey and Drag that a skilled opponent will almost never let you get either effect.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

*: There’s a handful of other effects that could spoil this, like Sturdy on Rhul jacks, loss of range into another Orgoth player, etc… But those are rare rules. The 7-things-that-all-have-to-go-right are what you have to watch out for in an typical game.

I feel like Penny Arcade beat everybody to this about twelve years ago, heh. (Crossing my fingers that this link is okay, given that it’s literally about Warmachine! :slightly_smiling_face: )


Nerf gun swords patch when

I forgot they had those!

I’m trying to find the one where someone looks at Gabe’s list, and they just agree he loses without playing.

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I had a tee shirt made which says “Orgoth Ruin Everything”, which I wear to games.


I need a shirt that says: “I only hate change and the way things are now.”


Here you go:

(I didn’t realise this post was so old - I don’t know how I ended up on this thread TBH)

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