Monpoc Kickstarter- any news?

Monsterpocalypse
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Firstly, please please please keep this thread civil. I’ve seen a lot of unhappy comments in other places, it’d be great if we could keep this as a place just to get some information.

If you haven’t kept up with the Mythic Games Monsterpocalypse Kickstarter, the latest is that all production has been put on the back burner, and according to Mythic staff, it’s highly unlikely that we’ll see the game delivered before 2025 (the date given on the Kickstarter was November 2022). Many people are suspecting that we may never see the game delivered at all, and that backers won’t be given refunds.

PP’s response so far has been along the lines of ‘we’re monitoring the situation, but don’t have any further comment at this point’. And that’s totally understandable- it isn’t them producing the game, and if Mythic have told them anything that they haven’t told us, it certainly isn’t for PP to share it.

My question is, is it realistic for us to start expecting a comment from PP? I understand that they have been very busy with MKIV, and again, it isn’t their project. But the reality is, a lot of us backed this project because of PP’s involvement in it, and while their silence on it so far has been sensible, I don’t think they can keep it up forever. I suspect that they may be powerless to do anything about the situation, but if there is any glimmer of hope that they can offer us, I’d love to hear it.

I’m just really disappointed because I’d love to play Monsterpocalypse. I’d avoided it as the buy in price was a little too high for me, but the Kickstarter seemed perfect. Listening to Emmanuel talk about it on Primecast, it really sounds like my sort of game, but I can’t justify buying into it while the Kickstarter is in limbo.

Again, I want this thread to be a constructive place. If you have negative comments, there are plenty of other places on the internet where you can post them.

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I feel like I can provide a pretty solid answer to this question. :slight_smile:

Please note up front: I am not affiliated with Privateer Press. I’ve never gotten a paycheck from them, I’m not authorized to speak for them, I don’t have an @privateerpress.com email address, none of that. I have no special first-hand knowledge of anything within PP or Mythic. All of my statements are crafted via a combination of publicly-available information (i.e., the Kickstarter campaign itself, the few Facebook comments that have been made by staff, and so forth), and a bit of common sense.

That being said, I think I can answer your question pretty succinctly. :slight_smile:

I’m pretty confident the answer is “No.” There’s absolutely no comment that can be made that will change anything or improve the situation. People behave very, very badly on social media, and there’s no way to say anything without being excoriated for it.

Even saying “It sucks, but there’s nothing we can do about it, we wish Mythic the best of luck” is inviting agitators to pop in by the hundred and posit conspiracy theories or make utterly nonsensical and unreasonable demands. Just off the top of my head, lightly paraphrasing things I’ve already seen said in the otherwise marginally civil Mosterpocalypse Second Edition Facebook group:

  • “This was all a Ponzi scheme to trick players out of their money. They needed cash quick / that evil Matt Wilson needed a new gold-plated swimming pool / whatever and so they launched this campaign to steal our money!”

  • “This was all Privateer’s fault. They should fulfill the order or refund us.”

I’m not even going to bother debunking either of those statements, because they are beneath consideration. But that’s the literal tip of the iceberg. :slight_smile:

That’s pretty much where it stands. I’m certain Privateer lost money on this deal, not to mention the (undeserved, in my opinion) damage to the brand and whatnot.

The only thing they could even possibly do is “magically write a multi-million-dollar check and fix it”, which is a fantasy. It’s not realistic. :slight_smile: I don’t know why players think Privateer is a monolithic corporate behemoth on the scale of Games Workshop, with billion-plus-dollar revenues such that finding a couple mil in the couch cushions is feasible. Like…whoever keeps proposing that, why don’t you go out and find an angel investor, some multi-millionaire with cash to throw around and get them involved, if you’re so hot to do something. :stuck_out_tongue:

I have said this many, many times before, but I’ll share this advice again:

If you want to play Monsterpocalypse, go play Monsterpocalypse. :slight_smile:

It really and truly is that simple! There are several complete factions that were not and will never be part of that Kickstarter, and you could go out today and buy several armies’ worth of models without owning a single duplicate!

I encourage you not to deprive yourself of a tremendously fun game for years, possibly forever, because you’re waiting on the Kickstarter to be fulfilled. I don’t know if that is a perfect example of the classic sunk cost fallacy, but it’s pretty darn close. :slight_smile:

You can comfortably buy a full 2-monster, 20-unit, 6-12 building army for around $300 USD MSRP right now. And if you do end up with some duplicates: well, so what? That’s hardly the end of the world. :slight_smile:

The cost barrier to entry dropped significantly earlier this year with the release of Building Sets 1 and 2 (Building Set 1 , Building Set 2) bringing the price of 8 pretty ubiquitous buildings down to $70 from (roughly) $170.

In fact, I’ll build you a list that includes absolutely minimal non-building duplicates right now, just as an example. :slight_smile:

Elemental Champions Protectors Starter Set - Privateer Press - $50 (gotta get you dice, a mat, and the other basics!)

Building Set 1 - $35
Building Set 2 - $35

NOTE: Edited because I forgot what was in the Kickstarter, so I changed the factions around a bit. :slight_smile:

Master of Xolotl - $35 (pairs extremely well with Hurricanius, in my opinion! You could also sub the Queen of Ixmiqui and save $4, although you’d have a bonkers pure-offense list that would fold very fast under damage, heh)

Gargoyle Monoliths and Temple Monoliths – First Guardians Units - $23
Hummingbird Spirits & Temple Giant – First Guardians Units - $30
Jaguar Spirits & Arbiter Monoliths - $26

World Clock - $20 (gotta get the faction building!)

That brings you up to $254 MSRP and you’ve got a pretty solid army on your hands, with the only duplicates being buildings (which is preferable), Hurricanius, and the Fire Kami and Air Avatar units from the starter box. And that is $254 MSRP, and we’re all well aware of sites that give non-trivial discounts on products when asked, so I’m sure the total could be lower. :slight_smile:

That gets you a ton of stuff, actually more than I would advise a starting player to purchase out of the gate! Plus, you got some of the all-metal unit packs, which tend to be more expensive due to the materials cost.

(My typical new-player advice is “Buy a starter, buy a couple unit boxes that you think look cool, and play some games with your cardboard apartment buildings before you decide where to go next.” )

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So, all that being said, I acknowledge up front that I am skipping over salient points to be made. I will close with one “in before somebody says it” item, and that’s all I’ll say for now. :slight_smile:

This is, quite simply, the one suggestion absolutely 100% guaranteed to ensure that the Kickstarter is never fulfilled.

Every single entity involved in the MonPoc Kickstarter wants it to ship!

Bringing a lawsuit – even if Privateer is virtually guaranteed to win – is a waste of time, effort, and money. So PP can sue a company without cash and get compensated with…what, exactly? And that will help the Kickstarter backers…how? (Didn’t think that through, eh?)

Be extremely wary of people who advocate this course of action. The mere fact that they make this suggestion indicates they are not legal professionals, and that, by definition, they are of the class of people (i.e., not Privateer Press employees or others with direct, first-hand knowledge) who know the absolute least about the specifics of the situation and are therefore the absolute least-qualified to speak on the topic!

That’s all I have for now! :slight_smile:

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At this point the Kickstarter is best treated as a sunk cost. There’s no way to get your money back, and the odds of it delivering are vanishingly small. While you can just look into the stuff that’s not included in the KS, I don’t see much point in holding out for anything that was included for the small chance that it ever actually shows up.

I genuinely believe that MonPoc is the best game that PP makes, and I don’t think it is particularly close. So, you should definitely give it a try, and if you want to play a few games before buying in, feel free to join us on the MonPoc Discord where we play online using Tabletop Sim. You can always check out the articles at SmashU, including the new player purchasing guide (the only thing I’d add to it currently is the newest Tritons pack and the building packs Michael mentioned.) as well.

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Thanks for the well considered replies!

I think the problem with me buying into monpoc now is that I’d planned on treating it more a board game to play with my wife, or have friends over to play with, rather than treating it as a wargame. That means I’d be looking at spending around $400 to buy two forces, which is probably prohibitive for me. The tabletop simulator idea is great though- I’ll definitely look into that when I have some free time!

As to the situation with the Kickstarter, I strongly suspect that you’re right- the game won’t deliver, and it will go out with a whimper rather than a bang, so PP will probably never be forced into a situation that demands a statement from them.

And yeah I agree that all of the ways forward that you’ve mentioned are ludicrous- there’s no reason PP would fulfill the Kickstarter, and even if they wanted to, there’s no chance they could. I just sort of hoped that given the situation, PP would have the backs of their fans who have pledged their money.

I think what sticks in my throat is, other kickstarters that have failed have had issues like running out of funding halfway through, so being in a situation where they don’t have all of the components to deliver, or the funds to ship what they do have. With this Kickstarter, the only evidence of any work that we have is some redesigned monster sheets, which does still leave the question of ‘where did the money go?’ It just feels like there’s a real lack of accountability here.

One solution, that I suspect would never happen, is to deliver digitally, through STLs and PDFs. And a lot of people would quite rightly be annoyed, and say ‘hey, I don’t have a printer, this is useless to me’. But it feels better than delivering literally nothing? Besides, I’m pretty sure PP have said that the models in question are going out of production anyway, so it’s not like they’d be losing out. But again, it’s not PP’s job to deliver, I’m just throwing ideas into the void.

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Sure thing!

That definitely puts you in a different audience than most miniatures players, so I can understand that. :slight_smile:

Having met him more than once, I absolutely 100% guarantee you that Matt Wilson has lost plenty of sleep over this. If Privateer had been at the helm, I guarantee they would have done something to make it right.

But, this was Mythic’s show, not Privateer’s, and outside of the aforementioned “magical money infusion” there’s nothing that Privateer can do.

To be fair to Mythic, they had some samples of the production models in-hand, and they had all the model assets in-hand as well, given that we saw every model with a Mythic-style base.

I have no idea where the funds went. The popular internet chatter makes it sound as if they were operating on a Cannon Films Golan/Globus model, wherein they sold the next project to finance the current one, and when the next project after MonPoc faltered, everything fell apart.

But please, please note that this is just what “people have said” and I have no clue in any way.

Handing out STLs is tantamount to business suicide. :slight_smile: You’re all but guaranteeing that Privateer will effectively never sell another one of those models at retail.

You may or may not know this, but as a population, miniatures gamers are simultaneously some of the wealthiest and stingiest people you will ever encounter. :sweat_smile: “I’ll spend $1,000 on a high-end printer and 60 days of printing time and 2,000 hours of effort to make those jerks at (insert company’s name here) regret having the gall to charge me for their products and services! And then I’ll print the newest stuff for all my friends at the game shop!”

…and then wonder why the store they play at (but never spend a dollar at) is circling the drain as product sits unsold on shelves, and openly offer their helpful business suggestions that if only the store would sell snacks they’d be doing just fine… :roll_eyes:

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So, hey, odd question while I’m thinking about it.

It sounds like you are outside the standard demographic I am familiar with, which is “hobby miniatures game players.” It sounds like you’re more in the “casual people who would play this as a board game” category. What sort of product and price point would be normal for you?

If you owned some stuff, under what conditions would it be normal for you to buy additional monsters and units? Would picking up a $30 monster or unit box every now and then cause you to balk?

Just curious. :slight_smile:

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This is a very good point. When PP have made mistakes in the past, they’ve done whatever it takes to fix them, I remember things like Matt working shifts in the warehouse to get the MKIV starters out of the door. And I get that their hands are very much tied, so there’s nothing really that they can do at this stage.

And you’re right- just went back and checked the KS updates, and they did have some sample models. However, they were only resin (presumably prints), they hadn’t had the molds made, so I doubt they were made at great cost. The question about where the money has gone is largely rhetorical- there are plenty of answers out there, but the truth is we’ll never know for sure.

As for prints, I agree with you in the broad sense- when PP announced MKIV was going to be 3D printed, but that they weren’t selling the STLs, they received a lot of unfair flak. They’re selling the milk rather than selling the cow, which makes a great deal of sense.

As for these specific models though, I’m fairly sure that PP has said that they’re all going out of print anyway, so they wouldn’t be losing out on sales (I can’t remember where I heard that or if it’s 100% accurate, so please correct me if necessary!)

As for me, I’m very much a miniatures gamer! But monpoc as a miniatures game didn’t massively appeal to me- mostly because my fairly limited free time is already taken up by a couple of miniatures games, and I don’t really have the capacity for a third. On the other hand, I would have time to play this game with my wife, and get the odd weekend to play it with friends who don’t play minis games. Also, my daughter is a bit young for it now, but I loved the idea of playing this with her in a few years- the pvc minis would be a lot better for little hands than resin!

Lastly, re. 3D printers (and I’ll be brief because I don’t want to derail!) 100% agree about supporting model shops and minis producers. The other game I play produces minis, but are also open to third party minis and 3D prints, so as a 3D print enthusiast, all of my armies for that are printed. However, I spend money with them as often as I can- I buy all of their books, subscribe to their app etc. I don’t have a local games store, I play at a non-profit community run club. But whenever I buy WMH, I always buy from places that I know are supporting the community!

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Also, you last question- I think about $150 max for a board game? That’s roughly what my pledge was, and it was the most the I’ve spent on a game. I think if I was enjoying the game, a $30 expansion would be great. But as I mentioned, the materials were a big part of it for me too- even though resin is better from a hobbyist point of view, I liked the idea of this being a big set of pvc that I could throw back I be i the box when I’m done without worrying about chips and breaks.

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The specific information of which I am aware appeared in this Insider post and on a – as far as I recall – paywalled podcast of some sort, one which I would never be able to locate anyway. Here’s the specific relevant quotes from the Insider:

Take note of the lack of inclusion of Monsterpocalypse in that statement.

Emphasis mine. :slight_smile:

Now, as I recall, there was a comment made in either the June or July Primecasts (or in that other podcast) where the quote went – and I am paraphrasing, so please forgive me – like follows:

“Every single model might not get converted, it depends on demand, we’ll see what happens.”

Which almost certainly means “We’ll happily go through the effort of converting something and making it as long as there’s demand.” I suspect that they’ve sold, for example, 99% of all the Ape Bombers, Ape Gunners, or Scavenger Vans they’ll ever sell, (or Defender X and Gorghadra, for that matter) and it might not make financial sense to preemptively resculpt some models. :slight_smile:

Yeah, I can understand all that. :slight_smile: I don’t have any other thoughts at the moment, though!

I don’t know which game that might be, but just based on general knowledge I can nearly say with certainty that the books and app subscriptions are the “game store should sell snacks” equivalent to the publisher. :slight_smile: Presumably they don’t lose money on it, but I bet nobody is banking on paying their rent with it either. :slight_smile: