I recently saw a discussion come up around this and thought it warranted clarification. How does (★Attack) Both Barrels interact with Dual Attack on the Khador Bison? Is the Bison allowed to make Ram attacks in the same turn it used (★Attack) Both Barrels?
Also, does it work the other way with like a mariner threshering and then getting its gunshot
No, you can’t make a * attack and other initial attacks.
The rationale is as follows. Emphasis mine.
Dual Attack is the “unless otherwise noted” part. Dual Attack allows you to make initial ranged attacks when you choose to make initial melee attacks. However, the Bison is not choosing to make initial melee attacks or initial ranged attacks; it is choosing to make a Special Attack.
Dual Attack says nothing about allowing you to make initial attacks after making a Special Attack; therefore, you cannot.
(So: charge, Ram, and then shoot it twice instead, if you really want to both melee and shoot something. )
Edited to add: you definitely can choose to make a * Attack as your combat action, and then use the Additional Attacks rule to make additional attacks of some sort. This effectively only ever occurs on war(noun) models that have rules such as Focus: Additional Attack, Fury: Additional Attack, or Forced: Additional Attack.
I’ll explicitly answer this one too:
No, the Mariner cannot choose to make a * Attack and then make its initial attacks with its Ship Gun.
By choosing to make a * Attack instead of initial attacks, the Mariner effectively “gives up” its initial ranged attacks. Because it has no initial ranged attacks available, and because it does not have any rule that allows it to make additional ranged attacks, such as Reload, it has no opportunity to make ranged attacks.
If it had Reload, then yes, it could buy additional ranged attacks after a melee * Attack.
Last I saw of this topic was a discord post saying they were looking into intent, do we have any official word yet on this ruling or is it still being looked into?
I haven’t heard anything otherwise. We have plenty of Infernals and PPS folks who are active on the Community Hub.
But until they say something otherwise, I think the intent is pretty clear: * Attacks do not play well with any other items on that menu of Combat Actions.
(Changing that actually requires a bunch of small corrections in a number of other places, so I wouldn’t expect to see any modifications. Plus it opens up a lot of already-strong models to get stronger. Do you want a Mammoth that can Full Battery Fire and also charge and make its initials? Because this is how you get a Mammoth that can Full Battery Fire and also charge and make its initials. )
I only ask because I heard they were specifically checking intent on this. I’ve come to the same conclusions, I’m just looking to hear it from an infernal.
Dual attack is not a new rule - they just gave it to a lot more models in Mk4. The way it works is still the same. It’s surprising to hear they’re checking intent, unless it’s about how a specific model should work, e.g. whether they wanted the Bison to be able to use Both Barrels and make a Ram attack during the same Combat Action. If that’s the case, they need to make a new rule for it, because both Barrels isn’t a new rule either.
Well, keep in mind, we don’t know who said the “checking for intent” bit, or the exact context in which it was said. Some staff know some games better than others.
It was Travis in the New Players Questions section of the discord. If you follow that link, it will take you to the rest of the relevant conversation as well
The bison can not use dual attack and also make a special attack
Just for clarity, this applies to @B0bTh3BuiIder’s example as well?
That is correct in that example too