Does these two rules disregard range in this mk4 wording? (as was the case in mk3) or do they allow you to choose from eligible models only?
Both disregard proximity in that if a closer model could gain it they won’t, but if you’re asking about which trumps the other then active player gets to choose which effect goes off first I believe, so it would go in the favor of devourer soul. A rule like soul taker competing for that soul would go in favor of direct spirits because there’s no proximity clause to interfere
If you’re asking about them being able to give the soul to any friendly model on the board, then yes both abilities allow you to do that
The way the two rules interract with each other would mean that no one gets the soul. The soul denial part of both rules applies regardless of who is active player.
Ah, I was ignoring the last phase, indeed
Thanks for the responses so far.
To clarify: I was focused on whether the two abilitys ignore range between the killed model and the receiver.
I understand that this was the case in mk3 (via Infernal ruling) but I am unsure if it is still the case in mk4.
Arguing for is the clear intend of the mk3 ruling
Arguing against is the fact that the wording has not been clarified. And that mk3 rulings might show intent, but does not set presedence in mk4.
Personally Im fine either way, I just hope that PP will tighten up the wording to whatever direction is intended.
I am rather curious how the wording could be tightened up? I’m having a hard time seeing room for interpretation here
I would like to have them specify that they ignore range to the receiving model.
Proximity is not a defined term, and as such the rules can be read as ignoring the normal “closest model gets the token”.
I suppose I’m still having trouble seeing room for interpretation here. The rule says to choose a model with a certain rule. Since no range is specified, no range is implied (this is how Warmachine rules have always worked, failure of specificity means there’s no restriction). It seems rather cut and dry to me
Since the wording is pretty straight forward as SilentMunk laid out, I want to address the intent part. If this wording was not intended to ignore soul collection range then that would apply to other soul collection abilities.
All Infernal masters have Soul Taker: Ripper which only collects souls within 2". However Omodamos has a rule that allows him to collect souls from a distance.
With your interpretation, Omodamos would only get the soul from hellhounds if he was within his regular soul collection range. Since he already collects within 2" of himself on his own, its safe to say that the hellhounds rule is intended to have some use beyond that.
In that interpretation of the rule, the logic would be:
Normal soul gathering rules always apply. Hellhounds state that Omodamos is an eligible model if within 12" of the horror. It also stipulates that the normal ‘closest first’ rule is disregarded.
Remember that some of us are not native English speakers, and perhaps need the rules written a bit tighter. In any case one of warmachines biggest forceshas always been the direct rules. If it needed clarification in mk3 and again in mk4, then it could probably do with a slight rewrite
I find you very eloquent for a non-native English speaker
Any chance for an official ruling/checking?
Can you please restate what the question is
Does direct spirits and/devour soul allow you to allocate souls to:
A) anywhere on the board (with proximity interpreted in broad sense)
B) any eligible model in collection range (with proximity understood as the rule of tokens prioritizing most priximate model first)?
Thanks in advance
Checking or forgotten?
Still checking on some things, mainly for consistency
So there is something else we are looking into but i can answer the restatement question at least.
So it is very much like the old ruling of you can pick any eligible model with that ability on the table
If that is the case, could you have the description altered so it states that situation?
Perhaps something like this,
Devour Soul - When this model destroys a living enemy model with this weapon and generates a soul token, you can choose which friendly model with the Soul Taker ability, anywhere on the battlefield, gains the destroyed model’s soul.
Enemy models cannot gain soul tokens from models destroyed by this weapon.
I wont comment on the first part except to say that the current wording already implies that any friendly model on the table can get the soul as discussed above.
But as for the section about enemy models, that is a separate sentence that denies enemies access to souls whether or not you have a friendly model that can gather the soul. So with your rewording the functionality would change which I doubtthey are looking to do.
I can see what you mean with that, for those opposite situations where an Infernal Gate, Soul Taker ability is in the mix. So I will remove that part.
For the first part, the current wording could be made crystal clear, by not implying and instead spelling it out. We would not need a discussion resulting in an infernal ruling and this thread if it was the case.