Vice Clamp -2 DEF Duration

Does the -2 DEF part of the ability remain for one round even if the model is no longer in melee range?

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It reads to me that all effects - the advancement and the def debuff - are both subject to the same validity clauses. So both only take effect while within the melee range of the model with Vice Clamp, and only for one round.

Otherwise I believe the rule would specify the validity individually for each effect. For example it would have been worded something more like: “… hit by this weapon suffers -2 def for one round. Additionally, the affected model cannot advance while within this model’s melee range for one round”, or something like that. Since it wasn’t written that way, I think both effects have the same conditions.

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I’d buy that explanation if it was consistent that all abilities are worded like that. To me you can read it two ways. Either only “can’t advance” part requires to be within melee range or both. RAI probably points as both. Or after another thought maybe just getting hit by a clamp reduces your defenses temporarily.

This can legitimately be read either way. We need a ruling.

Dr. @elswickchuck , you’re needed in the O.R.

Dr. @elswickchuck , report to the O.R. please.

:stuck_out_tongue:

So how long does the -2 def debuff last? The rest of the game? If it was separate from the advancement restriction it would need a separate clause for the duration - and if that duration was the rest of the game then it should say so, and it doesn’t.

I’ve never seen a rule in WMH where two effects had different durations/conditions but were included in the same sentence without any kind of separation. The rule is written as “X and Y until Z”, not “X, and Y until Z”. X and Y, the def debuff and advancement restriction, are a package deal here.

Ya, Ive got to agree with SoulSamurai.

The two things that the clamp does both happen, and both last until either the model isnt in melee range or a round passes… whichever happens first.

It could be written simpler, stating each thing individually,but then we’d have a huge paragraph to read.

While it is true the round restriction isn’t in the same spot as other abilities/buffs/debuffs, it feels clear enough to me. Normally an effect says “[ability name] lasts for one round.”

I read it like this: "An enemy model with equal or smaller base than this model hit by this weapon suffers -2 DEF while within this model’s melee range. Additionally, an enemy model with equal or smaller base than this model hit by this weapon cannot advance while within this model’s melee range. Vice Clamp lasts for one round. "

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To me there are two effects:
-2 DEF
-Cannot advance

The second is certainly tied to being within melee range. The first one is uncertain.

Both last for one round.

Currently with another patient. Will have to reschedule at another time. Lol

Currently it is in discussion.

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Both are dependent upon being in the model’s melee range

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If the model with Vice Clamp hits someone, leaves melee range (lets say with Reposition), and then the enemy model tries to advance towards them and enters their melee range what happens? Does their advance stop immediately? does the -2 def reapply?

One round means one round. :slight_smile: The trigger is “hit by this weapon” and the effect applies “-2 DEF and cannot advance while within this model’s melee range” for one round, so if your game state/model happens to meet those requirements, you do exactly what it says. :slight_smile:

Yeah. “While within” means that you check the effect constantly, and as long as you fulfil the condition (in this case, being in melee range) the effect applies.