Unlimited Discrepencies

Hey all, now that all the Legacy Prime Armies are on the app I assume (some of) the future updates will expand the Legacy Unlimited Armies.

But before moving onto expanding Unlimited, I’d like to bring these models to PP’s attention for fixing up. These are all models that do have mk4 rules but don’t appear in all the Factions that they probably should.

Here’s the list:

Cryx Unlimited is missing

  • Asphxyious4
  • Doctor Stygius
  • Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges
  • Cephalyx Overlords
  • The Devil’s Shadows Mutineers
  • Exulon and Cognifex

Cygnar Unlimited includes Viktor Pendrake … but he has lost his Partisan status, so no longer counts as a Cygnar model.

Khador Unlimited is missing Ol’ Grim

Mercenaries Unlimited is missing:

  • Rahera1
  • Toro
  • Nemo4
  • Dhunian Archon
  • Menite Archon
  • J.A.I.M.s
  • Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress
  • Major Harrison Gibbs
  • Savio Montero Acosta
  • Weird Wendell
  • Gremlin Swarm
  • Kogan the Exile
  • Ledfoot & Tredz
  • Pyg Tank
  • Eiryss1
  • Asphyxious4
  • Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters

Retribution Unlimited includes the Hermit … but he has lost his Partisan status, so no longer counts as a Retribution model.

Unless, of course, it is 100% intended that these models are “deleted” from the Factions that I said they’re “missing” from.

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Good list of stuff. It would be nice to know if these things are likely to change.

100% working as intended

Unfortunately, they did a lot of trimming and paring down, so those are likely all intentional.
But, worth mentioning because who knows?

Talking about discrepancies - is the difference in cost for the Krielstone unit between the Northkin and the Kriels intentional?

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And differences in Mortenebras stats?

If there’s confusion in the model rules refer to flowchart below:

Is it a Skorne model?
YES: Assume the worst alternative.
NO: Assume the better alternative.

So to both questions the answer is that the better stats/point cost will remain.

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Morty’s stats, spells, and feat.

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Referring to my flowchart above. It is really easy to predict what PP is doing.

Bonus points this time for also nerfing the cool Skorne ability (Mordikaar spell Hollow).

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I get that you are upset by the changes and choosing to display your displeasure here. I submit for your consideration that cutting sideways remarks are not the most effective way to communicate and meaningfully articulate your position on the topic.

Regardless of that, I’m gonna call shenanigans on claiming Hollow was nerfed.

The new Hollow is a unit-wide ARM buff that spits out free Void Spirits, while the old one was a weird living-to-undead type swap that added a lot of complexity for what amounted to “Mordikaar collects your soul token.”

The new version is a straight-up upgrade. :slightly_smiling_face:

You probably didn’t see what the spell was (and how it could be used to get value from the unit that definitely is hurt by the new unit rules) until this latest errata so maybe better not to comment.

It is just super frustrating that this same thing goes on and on regarding Skorne.

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So, again: why don’t you explain your reasoning? :slightly_smiling_face:

Because, unless I am seriously missing something regarding MK III’s Mordikaar, my analysis, though brief, was accurate.

I’m pretty sure ARM 19 Immortals and free Void Spirits trumps some soul tokens on Mordikaar and the highly limited benefits to becoming an undead model versus a living model.

Unless you’re talking about some MK I or MK II interaction, in which case, those statutes of limitation have expired. :stuck_out_tongue:

I am not talking about mk1, mk2 or mk3. I’m talking about the update we got today.

As I predicted, the update changed both Krielstone and Mortenebra to the cheaper/better version (neither one is Skorne). It also nerfed Hollow from what it was when published which was surprising as there was zero confusion in the wording. Apparently the interaction with Nihilators was too strong which is funny when models like Stormsmiths are just fine.

And without that interaction why would one use them over Immortals?

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So…what changed?

Also: changes to other factions are pretty irrelevant when discussing a different faction. :slightly_smiling_face:Who cares that Cryx’s Mortenebra2 got upgraded to the Cephalyx version? How does that affect Skorne in any way?

I appreciate faction loyalty and all that, but “I’m angry because somebody else got something nice” isn’t a great approach to…like…anything. :slightly_smiling_face:

You can probably read the release notes yourself or are you just trolling?

This topic was not about Skorne but those (previous) differences between same models. I just suggested that those will be fixed to be the better alternative which just happened.

Then there’s another thing that Hollow was nerfed even though there was zero confusion on how it works. The updates so far have been pretty much just fixing typos or poor wordings. For some reason PP decided now to make a balancing errata to just one model which surprisingly happens to be in Skorne! I specifically mentioned Stormsmiths because Cygnar is my main faction and those are a clear example of truly broken model which for some reason has not been changed. So call it faction loyalty if you want.

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This’ll be my last reply because we’re not getting anywhere. :slightly_smiling_face:

The topic of Skorne came up because you brought up Skorne in both posts, seemingly advocating the position that Skorne is always negatively affected by changes.

I saw the release notes. Hollow no longer creates free Void Spirits from friendly attacks, which sounds utterly fine and reasonable to me. Allowing it in the first place was almost certainly an oversight. Gaining benefits from attacking your own models has been systematically stripped from the game with every edition change. That change is so banal and expected that it’s not even worth mentioning. :slightly_smiling_face:

Your argument is inconsistent: you say it was nerfed, but then you say the old rule’s intent was perfectly clear and didn’t need to be changed. Both cannot be true in light of the change. :slightly_smiling_face:

Fixing an unintended interaction on Mordikaar has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Stormsmiths. If you would prefer that a Stormsmith change were prioritized over a change to Hollow, that’s fine, say that. Such a position neglects the nuances of the situation (maybe fixing Hollow was significantly less effort than satisfactorily modifying Stormsmiths, for example) but “I would prefer Stormsmiths were toned down” gets to the point a lot better than (paraphrasing) “Of course, Skorne got nerfed again.” :slightly_smiling_face:

If you actually read what was going on in this topic was that I was happy that my prediction did hit 100%. The cherry on cake was that a Skorne model was also nerfed out of blue. Maybe that part was a bit snarky but not in level that necessiated starting an argument.

But anyway you had to ride in and start making assumptions without knowing what was even talked about.

I have at no point claimed that I know the intent of some rule. And just to note you don’t know it either unless you are a part of game design (I seriously hope you are not because that kind of attitude towards players would help to drive us away for sure). I just know that there was a perfectly clear rule which was changed for worse. Maybe it is just a coincidence but I cannot recall any other similar change made during mk4 to a perfectly clear rule… except of course to Skorne also previously.

Regarding to what sounds reasonable to one isn’t moving the discussion anywhere. I can easily argue that when game design has moved into denying attacking your own models, keeping one unit which absolutely must attack your own models thanks to a special rule and new unit rules has a reason.

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With Annihilators having Berzerk and the new for formation rules , I could definitely see Hollow being used as a way to prevent the unit from killing itself off the table in one go.
I can see why PP changed it to it’s current wording and would bet that they weren’t even considering the implications to Annihilators when it happened.