Shouldn't the Drakyon be able to throw?

In the art the Drakyon has what would be a couple of “Open Fists” in the old rules. But the throw icon isn’t on those weapons. Thematically, shouldn’t it be?

Hardly seems game breaking to let the Drakyon throw; it’s got better things to do 99% of the time.

I just got to wondering if anything in the entire Shadowflame had the ability to use a Powder Keg’s “Demolition” ability. Currently, the only thing that can is a Wyvern. Seems like the Drakyon should also have the option.

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I’ve noticed that Claw x2 usually has the throw power attack on it, while the Claws x2 doesn’t. And a single claw often does not.

I think this is an artifact of how the throw was added to the weapon instead of being a model ability in mk4, and how the str attribute is no longer presented, so it looks like they may have to line item each claw, claw x2, claws and claws x2 for the models. In other words, it could be different for each model. If str were still a thing, they could have used a single claw with pow 4 and had the app add it together. Same with other melee weapons.

All this to say, it feels like some models just can’t throw. Might be by design, although it woild be very strong with Trash! Maybe they don’t know how to throw!

If you think it is a bug, report it in the app.

Feels like a design oversight. “Bug” makes it sound like it originated with the programming crew. This feels like someone just needs to tap Matt on the shoulder and be like, “Hey, shouldn’t the Drakyon be able to throw?” and he’d go, “What, it can’t? Oh, yeah, whoops. Totally. Yeah. Add throw to its card.”

It feels like an oversight, not a deliberate decision.

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So, this really feels more like an opinion piece rather than a rules question. What is the drak really losing by not having throw? It makes a throw, and sacrifices two initials?

It already has an auto smite with the gore attack. So when it hits, the model hit is slammed. Then there is a follow up. So it gores, slams, walks toward its victim, and rends it with 2 claw attacks that gain an additional die of damage due to trash. It can boost those, if it wants, or buy additional attacks.

This seems like a deliberate design choice for the 11 point model.

Like I said in the top level post: It loses the ability to use the Powder Keg’s abilities “Throwable” and “Demolition”.

The Defenses card is bland for Shadowflame. 9 times out of 10, I’m just going to take 3 barriers. There’s no interesting army design choice to make there.

Fire Pit is too weak to ever take. It needs a wider radius or a Distant-Deployment-like buff before it will ever be able to do its unique thing: Removing stealth. By the time the enemy is in its radius, they’ve already given up stealth because they’re already near the midline of the field.

Spike Trap is too special purpose. Its unique thing is it murders single wound weapon masters or combo strikers. I’ve tried taking it many times. But in all the times I’ve played with it or against it, it’s only impacted one game. I haven’t quite given up on it, because I LOVE trying to redeem interesting design options. Maybe it’ll be better if the meta shifts to more single wound weapon masters. To date, every time I’ve taken one I’ve ended up thinking, “I would have been better off just taking another barrier.” In other armies, there’s a reason to take it over barrier: Troops without Pathfinder can’t charge over friendly barriers. But Shadowflame never lacks for pathfinder. 100% of the times I’ve taken the Spike Trap with Shadowflame, its been unhelpful, and I would have been better off with a barrier.

But the Powder Keg is an interesting piece. It has a really novel ability that sets it apart from the other defenses: Taking out enemy defenses or being a blast attack. I have a use for that. IF I have a spare model to throw it. I can never spare a Wyvern. And right now, the Wyvern is the ONLY model in the entire Shadowflame that can throw. But the Drakyon should be able to throw and there are times I would make that choice.

So giving the Drakyon the Throw ability opens up the powder keg as an interesting choice that is otherwise off the table for an entire army. It would mean I couldn’t just sleepwalk through my Defenses choices with this army. I’d have one more interesting design decision to make during listbuilding.

Honestly, it seems like the design direction for Khymaera is just “Khymaera doesn’t have easy access to throws and most other power attacks.”

The only model in the whole faction with the Throw Power Attack weapon quality is the Wyvern, and only the Wyvern and Drakyon have trample, slam, and headbutt power attacks. One Hydrix head grants headbutt, and the Vypex always has headbutt, and that’s it for the whole faction.

Not every defense necessarily needs to be valuable to every list or even every army. In the grand scheme of things, it’s probably okay if maybe one specific defense isn’t broadly applicable to one particular army. :slight_smile:

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Fully agree with you michael.

And to take it a step further, throws are rare in the OG Legion of Everblight. Archangel, Golab, Carnivean, Neraph, Ravagore, Proteus. 6 of 26 beasts in the unlimited group isn’t many. It isn’t like og trolls where almost every beast had throws, and were probably designed around that concept.

It’s good in my opinion to have that kind of variety where you can pick and choose your army based on what they do, and how they interact with the game.