Scyrafael feat and grim returns

Another Scyrafael feat question. It’s interaction with grim returns and similar abilities. Does using grim returns on a unit and placing a model returned in Scyrafael control trigger her feat?

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A model placed as a result of Grim Returns is still placed.

However, because it was not in play prior to being placed, it cannot be “closer to her than [it] began” after being placed, so it will not be affected by her feat.


I disagree. I would say that going from distance “NA” to distance '15" ’ is moving closer.

I knew somebody would suggest this. :smile:


How do you measure range to a model not in play and not on the table?

Exactly how far away is that model before, so you can compare the before-and-after measurement?

Where do the rules provide any guidance about measuring to models off the table?

If you can measure to models not in play, what implications does that have? Are they now valid targets? If somebody sets their dead models next to the edge of the table and somebody drops an AOE on some Ambushing models nearby, can the not-in-play models absorb some of the AOE because they’re closer?

The value for the out-of-play model’s distance from anything is null. It is not a value. It’s certainly not zero, because being 0” away means the model is B2B! :slightly_smiling_face: It is literally “undefined”, it’s a “divide by zero” error, and you can’t compare “undefined” and a real value. :slightly_smiling_face:


This is the only possible correct answer to this


We aren’t talking about measuring to non existent points though. We are talking about what the end state is. And here we are going from a Null state to a live state, with the live state having a measurable distance. It would therefore be closer than its previous Null state.

Your argument just doesnt make any logical sense though. You cant say an actual measurable distance is smaller than a nonexistant distance.

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@elswickchuck Any thoughts and sage wisdom to add?

A model entering play can not be closer/further than it was previously. It would not trigger Iron Storm.