Retroactive triggers Refuge, Sprint (Lightning Strike)

Per "Reap the Whirlwind," "Synergy," and retroactive triggers - #6 those rules are not allowed to trigger retroactively.

Are Refuge and similar abilities allowed retroactive triggers and why? I can’t see any reason why they should be able to trigger if eg Synergy isn’t allowed to.

I believe the reason Lightning Strike can trigger retroactively is because it happens at the end of the activation and says “if this model killed something during its activation.” As I recall that was intentionally changed for Mk3 where in Mk2 you had to cast it first which ends up being a waste if you don’t kill anything.

Not sure how that sits with the linked ruling though.

Hello eldrak. Thanks for your question. Quick heads up that rules questions like this are migrating to the SFG Discord. You can check it out here Steamforged Games

On to your question. The difference is when the trigger checks. With Refuge you would have had to cast the spell before the end of your activation. Then at the end of your activation you check to see if you fulfilled the requirements. Technically this isn’t even retroactive since the timing in the spell specifically calls out when you check for the effect.

With Synergy you check when a model hits with an attack. Since you have not cast Synergy yet you have moved past the point when you would count the trigger. Thus you can’t go back in time to check.

2 Likes

Obviously, Loren’s answer is the final word. :slight_smile: But, I would also like to point out a logical issue with Synergy being retroactive.

Here’s Synergy:
image

The problem with it being retroactive is this: if one part is retroactive, all parts are retroactive. Given the rule’s wording, there’s absolutely no way to justify allowing some of the rule to work in the past, and some of the rule not to work.

And this raises a really serious problem: how do you go back and retroactively add to your attack and damage rolls? You can’t hand-wave it away because the bonus is non-optional. :slight_smile: And if you do go back and try to retroactively adjust those rolls, you very quickly run into situations that can drastically change the game state. For a contrived, but plausible example:

  • Your warjack misses hitting a key Shield Guard solo by 1, which…
  • …allows the opponent to Shield Guard the ranged attack that would kill their caster, which…
  • Disables the Shield Guard model, who makes its Tough roll, which…
  • Prevents your last heavy from finding a landing zone to charge the opponent’s caster, so…
  • Instead of charging their caster, your last heavy charges an opponent’s heavy and, after buying all its attacks, leaves it with 3 boxes. Oh man! If your rolls had been just a little better, you could have wrecked this heavy and started attacking the other one nearby!

And then your Leader casts Synergy and charges and hits a different enemy model, destroys it, gets Synergy to +3, triggers Blood Boon, casts a spell against the knocked-down Shield Guard and removes Tough from the knocked-down Shield Guard model.

Untangle that. I dare you. :stuck_out_tongue:

(You can’t. Which model gets which value for the Synergy bonus? The rule just grants a bonus for “each other” model that hit, it does not specify an implicit order. Do you go back and start trying to adjust the damage rolls in order? Why? Why don’t you resolve them in a different order? Whichever order you pick, Synergy doesn’t say that. Do the rules justify that decision? Show me where the rule book says that. Were you cheating when you did not accurately represent your damage information honestly? Because you can’t just arbitrarily decide how much damage you do, you have to follow the rules. How did your last warjack buy an attack against the model it destroyed one attack sooner due to the Synergy bonus? And so on, and so forth.)

It seems we both agree these rules should have a better wording.