Point spreads with new boxed sets

First off, for those who missed it, SFG announced the new configurations for boxed sets yesterday (Now on SFG Store: Warmachine & Iron Kingdoms), and put the reconfigured Battlegroup, Core Expansion, and Auxiliary Expansion boxes for the already-released armies up on the store. I’ve run the numbers on the point and model counts for each box for the existing factions. Some thoughts on these breakdowns will be in follow-up comments.

All boxes have a Warcaster (included in the model count). Point range is due customization of Warjacks, if that wasn’t obvious. If I have anything wrong with the counts/sums, I’ll fix those (already caught one error as I was writing this up).

Cygnar
Storm Legion
Battlegroup: 3 models; 17 - 29 points
Core: 19 models; 43 points
Aux: 15 models; 39 points

Total: 37 models; 99 - 111 points

Storm Forge Cadre: 9 models; 15 points

Dusk
House Kallyss
Battlegroup: 3 models; 18-29 points
Core: 21 models; 41 points
Aux: 13 models; 40 points

Total: 37 models; 99 - 110 points

Ghosts of Ios Cadre: 11 models; 34 points

Khador
Winter Korps
Battlegroup: 3 models; 20-32 points
Core: 19 models; 40 points
Aux: 15 models; 35 points

Total: 37 models; 95-107 points
(Note - I’m not counting the Weapon Support trooper options as “extra” models here - the Infantry units are counted as 2 units of 5.)

Annihilators Cadre: 6 models; 19 points

Khymaera
Shadowflame Shard
Battlegroup: 3 models; 16-29 points
Core: 17 models; 44 points
Aux: 13 models; 37 points

Total: 33 models; 97-110 points

Shard Incarnates Cadre: 6 models; 26 points

Orgoth
Sea Raiders
Battlegroup: 3 models; 16-31 points
Core: 19 models; 41 points
Aux: 15 models; 37 points

Total: 37 models; 94-109 points

Cursebound Cadre: 8 models; 35 points

Southern Kriels
Brineblood Marauders
Battlegroup: 3 models; 17-39 points
Core: 18 models; 41 points
Aux: 12 models; 20 points

Total: 33 models; 78-90 points

Fire Warriors Cadre: 15 models; 35 points

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The immediate things that jump out at me:

  • The Core boxes feel relatively balanced in terms of point value, models on the table, etc.

  • Brineblood Marauders’s Auxiliary Expansion feels very out of line with the other Auxiliary boxes in terms of point value.
    – The overall values for this army feel “off” in a way I can’t quite articulate, but the Aux box really stands out here.

  • The Storm Forge Cadre seems to be the “weakest” offering of all the Cadres, probably because it’s the only one other than Khador Annihilators that does not include a Warjack/Warbeast/Monstrosity option. Khador is a close second on the bottom of that list.

  • Despite any point/value disparities, I’m glad that PP/SFG have made the leap to the new box formatting now rather than waiting. It’s a good time for realigning the product line.

That’s in for the initial thoughts. Curious if anyone else has any opinions on the new boxes.

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Very nice breakdown.

Initially I was thinking that the difference might come down to how bulky the Cannons and Dirge are despite being very few points but I just realized that they are down to 1 Cannon in the box instead of 2 like the current sets so I’m not sure that still holds up. When you compare it to Winter Korp for example:

BB:

  • 6 Small Bases
  • 4 Medium Bases
  • 2 Large Bases

WK

  • 5 Small Bases
  • 7 Medium Bases
  • 3 Large Bases

I know the Dirge is pretty big, but the Pyg models are also smaller than the WK small-based models so I’m not sure where the difference comes from. Weird.

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That’s some impressive work there. Thanks for putting this together.

The thing that concerns/confuses me is that they are apparently not selling magnets. I don’t know if this means they plan on going away from the variable load outs on jacks or whatever

So far everything they’ve said in their blog posts and Reddit AMAs seems to indicate they have no plans to make any rules changes so loadouts are definitely staying. Given how much trouble PP has had with magnets not being legally allowed to be in the same box, retailers not getting the magnet packs from distros, etc etc I think it’s just a logistical thing.

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This has come up in various un-search-able/un-link-able places, but the magnet issue boils down to:

  1. Various regulations about mailing magnets
  2. The problems SaltTitan decribed about bundling magnets with purchases. (Some stores are better than others, leading to inconsistent user experience.)

(Yes, I too would prefer to have magnets included.)

I absolutely understand the safety point and all. I guess my next question would be where to obtain them in the future. I was finding the 3/16 size on Amazon but not the 1/8.

Nevermind. Found an answer on discord. Kjmagnetics.com

2 Likes

They are very good. I’ve ordered from them many times. :slight_smile:

That was my initial thought too, but really, I think the disparity for Brinebloods comes down to a disparity in overall army composition from the Core and Auxiliary boxes:

Army Solos Units
Storm Legion 2 + 1 character 7 unique units: 3 30mm 5-model, 3 40mm 3-model, 1 50mm 3-model; 1 CA
House Kallyss 2 + 1 character 7 unique units: 3 30mm 5-model, 1 30mm 3-model, 2 40mm 3-model, 1 50mm 3-model; 1 CA
Winter Korps 3 + 1 character 6 unique units: 1 30mm 5-model, 2 30mm 3-model, 2 40mm 3-model, 1 50mm 3-model; 2 CA (plus the second Infantry unit that’s non-unique, and the extra weapon options)
Shadowflame Shard 3 + 1 character 6 unique units: 2 30mm 5-model, 1 30mm 3-model, 3 40mm 3-model; 1 CA
Sea Raiders 2 + 1 character 7 unique units: 1 30mm 3-model, 3 40mm 5-model, 2 40mm 3-model, 1 50mm 3-model; 1 CA
Brineblood Marauders 4 + 1 character 4 unique units: 2 30mm 5-model, 1 30mm 3-model, 1 40mm 5model; 4 CA

As a “numbers guy” (I don’t even play Brineblood, so I don’t have a specific preference for them), this feels like a really big disparity. Especially in light of the fact that the fieldable points from the Core+Aux boxes is so huge (90 points max vs 107 for Khador, the next lowest) combined with the fact that at least a few of those 90 points will sit to the side without additional purchases - three of the CAs are all for the Marauder Crew, and you only get one of those in the new box. So at best, you can field 86 points of models - a max of 29 bodies (including 3 warbeasts and your warlock) for your $380 investment (Battlegroup + Core + Aux). Something about that seems really off to me, especially when every other army has more bodies and points it can get on the field.

3 Likes

Brineblood army is constructed differently than other armies and have more solos and less units than other armies. Especially marauders and their 3 attachment fill role of different units while they are still one unit. In original boxes this is compensated by adding 2 marauder units to core army that make it really good start but now second unit is dropped out. I think easies solution would be include second marauder unit to Auxiliary box bringing it a bit larger than other boxes. Or just accept that trolls are bigger and cheaper (point vice) than other armies.

In the EU at least, supermagnete.de offers a great selection of neodymium magnets. Great service, fast delivery, often some freebies with largr purchases, and their magnets are high quality. Of course, being European they use millimeters rather than fractions of an inch as measurements, but once you figure out what sizes you need, that shouldn’t be a problem.

Some speculative info on the upcoming Cryx Necrofactorium releases I’ve been able to find online.

I fully understand the Cryx is the first army with the new model, there is the possibility of new announcements to come (or a complete revamp of the army distribution).

Using the same format as the original post:

Cryx Necrofactorium
Storm Legion
Battlegroup: 3 models; 20 - 32 points
Core: 16 models; 23 points
(Note - this does NOT include the Grendel model, which would add 1 model and probably around 16-18 points)
Aux: 11 models; ??? points (rules for these models haven’t been release yet)
Command: 6 models, 30 points

Battlegroup + Core + Aux = 30 (or 31) models. Point value is way too unclear to tell.

Across those 3 boxes (not counting the Command Starter because there’s nothing to compare it to yet), Cryx has:
3 Solos (no characters)
5 unique units: 1 30mm 5-model, 1 30mm 3-model, 2 40mm 3-model, 1 50mm 3-model. No CAs.

Warning - deep speculation ahead.

Estimating some numbers on point costs for the models that don’t have costs yet (these are purely my “gut feel” numbers compared to existing models/units - examples for comparison with the matching point cost, base, model count, and rough army role are given):
Grendel - 17 (examples: The General, Medveditsa, Molok)
Mechanithrall Brutes - 8 (ex: Tempest Assailers, Ulkor Axers)
Sludge Thralls - 9 (ex: Tempest Thunderers, Dreadguard Archers, Wyrmspine Cinderbacks)
Night Terrors - 12 (ex: Dreadguard Cavalry)
Iron Lich Commander - 4 (note here: very few solos cost more than 3, but I don’t know where this model fits quite yet, so I’m estimating high)

This brings the Core box to 40 points (and 31 models), the Auxiliary box to 32 points. Battlegroup + Core + Aux = 92 - 104 points total.

Which, for the record, places the Necrofactorium below the model count for all the released armies at 31 vs 33-37, and a bit below the point ranges for everyone but Brinebloods (78-90 for Brinebloods, a speculative 92-104 for Necrofactorium, and then the other armies have minimums ranging from 94-99 and maximums ranging from 109-111).

Now, I know that an army is more than just a handful of cherry-picked releases. But I’m comparing the boxed sets because every army has them (or will be getting them in the next few months in the case of Cryx). They are, by design, supposed to be comparable. I also understand that there are other considerations (in terms of model complexity, quantity of materials, etc) that are bound to come into play.

What I’d like to see in all of this recalibration across the boxes is some attention paid to a semblance of balance in what consumers get for their money when it comes to playability. And for most of the armies, I can objectively say that’s present. It seems to be sorely lacking in the case of Brinebloods*, and Cryx seems to be shaving off a little of that value as well.
*I do recognize that Southern Kriels has a very strong offering in the Fire Warriors Cadre, but “go buy the Cadre” should not be the response to deficiencies in the other boxes.

This is already way longer than I intended :man_facepalming:, so I’ll stop it here and let folks chew on the data.

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