Future Sight and Rerolls

Remind me how Future Sight and rerolls interact? I am wondering if I can
a) Roll, miss, boost, miss, reroll.
b) Roll, miss, reroll, miss, boost.

Bonus) Rerolling doesnt weirdly “undo” the Future Sight boost does it?

Future Sight allows you to boost after rolling, so step B. Rerolls happen at step E.
So scenario A in the options you listed.

If the boost happens after B, and rerolls at E send you back to B, why could I not do scenario b?

Because you only go back to B if necessary

What? Both of these instances involve rerolling and going back to B

I’ll provide an answer to this question (to the best of my ability, I am not the developer, this does not constitute legal advice, etc.), but I want to address the intent first. Like all game rules, Future Sight is written in an economical manner and non-legalese, conversational tone. Sometimes this can lead to misunderstandings and rules question, but “ease of use in 99.99% of all applications” definitely beats “wall of hyper-precise explanatory text” in my opinion. :smiley:

So!

The purpose of Future Sight seems, pretty clearly, to be “to allow you to boost after seeing if you hit or miss.” Changing it to anything else would be pretty useless. (For example, boosting after rolling but before seeing if the attack hits or misses would be a waste of everyone’s time. It is no different than boosting before the roll.)

If I may be so bold, I propose that Future Sight inserts itself between 5d and 5e. It is the earliest sensible spot in the timing chart and least complex place for this to occur.

So, the most sensible interpretation I can provide you is:

  1. Follow 5a like normal, but set aside boosting if you’re using Future Sight.
  2. Follow 5b like normal.
  3. Follow 5c like normal.
  4. Follow 5d like normal.
  5. Decide if you want to boost using Future Sight, and roll the extra die.
  6. Re-evaluate timing chart 5d.
  7. Follow 5e like normal. If you end up returning to 5b to reroll, treat the Future Sight boost as if it had happened in 5a this time around.

This is the absolute cleanest, most disruption-free approach I can suggest. :slight_smile:

I cannot imagine the intent is that you apply dice dropping effects before boosting the roll

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Does this mean that if I have an arm out, I couldn’t roll the single hit die and opt to boost afterwards?

Sure you can, thats exactly what future sight does.

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Crippled systems/aspects don’t cause you to drop dice from the roll (Step C), they cause you to roll fewer dice to begin with (Step A or B).

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I can, because that is how it works normally. :stuck_out_tongue:

5a is where all number-of-dice-changing effects, except “drop the lowest/highest” type stuff, happen.

So, if you have a crippled system, you remove 1d6 from your standard 2d6 attack roll before you roll. You also add or remove dice, using rules such as (not quoting the rule exactly) “Flak - This model gains an additional die on attack rolls against models with Flight.” or Murderous (gain an additional die against warrior models).

Step 5c is where dice modification stuff like Signs & Portents / Star-Crossed (“drop the lowest”/“drop the highest”) has to resolve, because trying to resolve the “drop the highest” before you’ve actually rolled doesn’t make sense. :slight_smile:

So, the only thing that “stick in the boost between 5d and 5e” changes is where you decide to boost. It doesn’t materially affect really anything else at all.

So, I’m somewhat confused about what you are asking. A crippled system or aspect only removes one die from an attack roll, so, absent any other effects in play, you’d still be rolling 1d6 in 5b.

If – and off the top of my head, I can’t think of any effect that does this right now, so this is a hypothetical concern – somehow you ended up with 0d6 after Step 5a, then I guess you’d say to your opponent “I rolled a zero”, and go on with the sequence. :slight_smile:

Fiona feat and crippled system

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Idk why for a moment I thought the crippled arm die removal was in C was what was happening there

I can, because that is how it works normally. :stuck_out_tongue:

Im referring to effects like roullette, starcrossed, etc.

I am doubting that it is dev intent that you roll 4d6, opponent picks 2, then you get to boost after. Seems more in line with intent that you roll 4d6, decide if you want to add a 5th, then opponent picks 2

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No worries! :slight_smile: Hopefully this has helped clear up any questions you’ve had. :slight_smile:

That’s a good example, but I feel like the odds of this happening in practice are getting pretty slim. :sweat_smile:

So, you’d roll 0d6 in 5b, and then if you were somehow affected by a “drop the highest/lowest” effect as well, drop 0d6 from the 0d6 roll, and you’d miss in step 5d.

Then, you’d boost.

And if somehow you ended back in 5e and were forced to reroll (how many different casters and factions are we up to in this example, now? :laughing:), you’d go back to 5b and reroll, adding back in the 0d6 you added or removed in the original 5e.

The end result is that you roll 1d6 in 5b, 5c is normal, 5d is normal, and 5e is normal.

In the “original” timeline before Future Sight and being forced to reroll, you boosted in 5a, rolled 1d6 in 5b, and rerolled 1d6 in 5e.

In the “new” timeline after Future Sight and being forced to reroll, you (effectively) boosted in 5a, rolled 1d6 in 5b, and rerolled 1d6 in 5e.

Unless somebody can come up with a “drop the highest” or other “drop a die after rolling” effect that also does not cause an additional die to be added in 5a, I conclude these are equivalent in practice. The only thing that changes between these (increasingly contrived) examples is where you boost, once, with Future Sight.

In the Fiona list is Mire, running a swamp horror with impervious flesh.

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So…why would that be the case?

In my original post, I stated my interpretation of intent for Future Sight, i.e. “to allow you to boost after seeing if you hit or miss.”

If the boosting happens in 5b, before you determine if you hit or miss, then Future Sight is functionally pointless. It is functionally identical to boosting in 5a.

If the boosting happens in 5c, before you determine if you hit or miss, then Future Sight is functionally pointless. It is functionally identical to boosting in 5a.

It’s impossible to boost with Future Sight in 5d, because that step doesn’t have anything to do with modifying or rolling the dice.

It’s impossible to boost with Future Sight in 5e or later, because this step tells you to reroll dice (which is not what Future Sight is doing), and somehow resolving after 5e but before Step 6 means Future Sight timing would get needlessly complex and have to contend with (and get Infernal rulings for) myriad edge-case situations.

Future Sight has no interaction with Impervious Flesh in regards to attack rolls. :slight_smile:

We’ve been discussing attack rolls exclusively so far.

Are you implying thay we arent allowed to do math before 5d?